In Case You Missed The Last Republican Debate, It Went Something Like This . . .

"Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers." ~ Aristotle

Moderator Charlie Rose: "Pundits are saying that Republicans are quick to dismiss any economic stimulus plan that comes from the Democrats or the President and that the GOP has put forth no plan of their own. As a nominee for President, what is your plan to fix the economy?"

Herman Cain: "I have come up with a flat 9-9-9 tax plan that will eliminate all write-offs and tax everyone - the poor, the rich and businesses at the same rate, 9%."

Charile Rose: "How did you and your economic advisors come up with a plan that changes our tax code from a progressive one to a flat, possibly even regressive tax code?"

Hermain Cain: "I don't know what an economic advisor is, but it's simple - when I was the CEO of Godfather's pizza, whenever we had a new type of pizza we wanted to sell, no matter how it tasted, we sold it for $9.99 and people ate that crap up, literally!"

Michelle Bachman: "When you turn 9-9-9 upside down, it's 6-6-6 and now please excuse me while I mumble to myself in tongues and pray to Jesus Christ my savior."

Charlie Rose: "Are there any critiques here of Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan?"

Rick Santorum: "That plan seems pretty upity if you ask me."

Charlie Rose: "Can we please refrain from using racial slurs during this debate?"

Jon Huntsman: "You mean we shouldn't mention the fact that Rick Perry's family owns a ranch in Texas that for many years was known as "n****rhead"?

Rick Perry: "The real issue is that while Governor of Texas I oversaw the execution of 230 prisoners, most of them black - thank you very much."

Newt Gingrich: "The real issue here is economics and the most-pressing problem of the day is my high-interest rate on my Tiffany's charge account. How do you suppose we get that lowered?"

Ron Paul: "I'd like to say something if I could. . ."

Charlie Rose: "Congresswoman Bachman, do you have anything else to add?"

Michelle Bachman: "(unintelligible mumbles) Jesus (unintelligible mumbles), God, (unintelligible mumbles)."

Mitt Romney: "Is it too late to switch parties?"

(Of course, this is not verbatim, but you get the picture.)

Now for a reality check on Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan:

Most economists say Cain’s plan would be a tax hike for the lower middle class and a tax windfall for the wealthy.

If you have a family of four with an income of just under $50,000, they could end up paying more under the Cain plan. Currently, they are taxed around $3,850 in income tax. Under Cain’s plan, they would be taxed at 9 percent or pay $4,500.

That’s $650 more.

Although the family would save almost $4,000 in Social Security taxes, it would have to give up the child tax credit worth the same amount. Furthermore, it would pay an additional national sales tax of 9 percent on everything purchased, including groceries and clothes, which totals about $2,000.

That means under the Cain plan that family could end up paying $2,725 more.

“It’s going to raise the price of just about everything by about 9 percent,” said former George W. Bush economic policy adviser Bruce Bartlett. “We know from experience and analysis that that tends to hurt people with low incomes." " http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/9-9-9-plan-would-almost-double-taxes-on-middle-class/

We could also be looking at a huge black market, where people start selling and buying everything from clothes and groceries to beer and books under the table in order to save 9%. Think communist Russia in the 80's.

Or people will simply buy less. Either situation means less income for the government, which means more job cuts at the state and federal levels. In other words, this plan stinks.

This post is contributed by a community member. The views expressed in this blog are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Patch Media Corporation. Everyone is welcome to submit a post to Patch. If you'd like to post a blog, go here to get started.

Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 10:11 PM
How is Greendale a suburb but not suburbia? How do places like Random Lake or Port Washington count as suburbia? As far as taxes I just did a quick search for homes for sale in Greendale and in Port Washington. I found two both priced at $229,000 and found that the property tax in Greendale was $438.37 a month, while in Port Washington it was $348.68 a month, so I don't see your point there either. This is Greendale Patch that this is posted in, so there again....what's your point?
Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 10:38 PM
@James R. Hoffa, so are we now taking about the 47% myth or the destitute? Is your point that you want to tax people that have little or nothing, or do you think there should be no taxes at all. My point is that the premise is false and designed to create jealousy among the classes. By saying 47% don't pay federal income tax is foolish, it's as if those people are getting some sort of deal or getting away with something. When you make so little as to not qualify for federal income tax, you are not living high on the hog. As far as the programs you site, would you like to be in a situation where you would have to rely on those thing to survive? Seriously, who's the fool here? Go move to Idaho or the Upper Peninsula, the big bad government will never bother you in those places trust me.
Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM
http://www.heritage.org/BudgetChartBook/federal-revenue-sources http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/federal_revenue So you are concerned with the poor paying no federal income tax. I would like you to look at the two sites I posted. One from the us government and the other from the ultra right wing Heritage Foundation. Notice that revenue from income tax is 41.6% of all revenue. 40% comes from payroll taxes (social security and medicare). remember that there is a cap on what is paid into payroll taxes (about $107,000). So if the bottom 47% are receiving income by way of a payroll check, they are being taxed on there income both by the federal government (which is usually given back in a tax refund), and payroll taxes.
Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 11:10 PM
The tax structure on income currently can be found here. http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html Your defender Mr. Hoffa sited that when I said the poor are taxed, that I referred to state taxes, and that is true, however I don't think it is honest to not include all taxes. Poor people have cars, there is an excise tax of gas and on tires. Poor people need to feed themselves, there are taxes on groceries. I just find the whole tax issue vacant and dishonest. We have never had income taxes this low since I believe the 1920's, and find it irresponsible for people to complain. I'm guessing your the same people that wanted to go to war with Iraq. That costs money (3.7 trillion for Iraq and Afghanistan so far). Probably the same people that favors free markets and complain about jobs going overseas. Those companies get tax beaks for doing that. It is insane. I don't see either party fixing it the way it should be fixed and this crazy 999 plan is the worst most regressive thing yet.
Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 11:13 PM
sorry CowDung, I have issues with Angry White Dude, we had some debating the other day and he chose to delete his comments instead of continuing the debate, so I have no tolerance for his propaganda.
Robert Hansen October 18, 2011 at 11:19 PM
total revenue from corporations was 191 billion vs. 898 billion from individuals. Corporations have a lot more money than we do and if they are going to continue taking our jobs overseas and paying us less that first number should be a hell of a lot higher. I am not a fan of GE regardless of if they pay taxes or not. They or one of these big free trade pushers that have destroyed our country with democratic and republican support.
karen k October 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM
He's smoke and mirrors. Anytime they ask him an off script question he can't call on his intellect to form an even remotely intelligible response. Guess what? As POS you're going to get a lot harder impromptu questions than what a CNN reporter throws you. Not only that, he'll be completely awful at foreign policy. HC as POS is a Disney fantasy movie plot. Why do some Americans buy that? It's romantic to think that a good ol regular hard working business Joe can solve our problems. In actuality, we need the smartest people we can find and we need them ALL not to be bought off. As far as the thread on here about low 47% pay no federal income taxes, they do pay payroll taxes and are taxed in other ways. They also own the smallest percentage of the wealth/income in the nation. The top 1% own 42% of the wealth. They own half of the investments in stocks and bonds. So yes, it is currently structured that people who have less wealth pay less or no federal taxes BUT if you take all the taxes that they they do pay as a total percentage of their income they actually have a higher total OVERALL tax burden. So by hammering on the FOX talking point that one tax may be lower or none, you don't account for the rest of the story. Data is like a bikini, it's what it doesn't show that's the real story.
Bren October 19, 2011 at 12:47 AM
Perhaps Karl Rove's inelegant strategy this time is to pit two black men against each other. In his mind, black people voted for Barack Obama because he was black, no other reason. Karl is the Aaron Spelling of political strategy--superficial and pathetically obvious, but successful because so many people fall for it. I'm glad I'm not Republican. My father is, and he is underwhelmed by the field, to say the least.
Robert Hansen October 19, 2011 at 03:56 AM
That was awesome Keith. I think I need To listen to Miller more, been on a Sly in the Morning kick of late.
Robert Hansen October 19, 2011 at 03:59 AM
Like I said, the GOP clown car rolls on.
James R Hoffa October 19, 2011 at 08:47 AM
@Robert Hansen – Working a minimum wage job is enough to keep an individual out of poverty if they budget correctly. And who’s the fool that’s making incorrect broad and general statements that you can’t defend once I debunk them with FACTS? Using actual FACTS to support a position is a little something I like to call reality – you may want to join the rest of us in it, it’s pretty cool once you get the hang of it. Especially before you start trashing other posters and calling them 'stupid' and 'fools' - that's just not cool! The problem is that your people who apparently "are not living high on the hog," have cell phones, DVD players, video game consoles, flat screen TV's, cable/satellite programming, jewelry, and many other 'luxuries.' If they can afford these things, then they can afford to contribute to society just like the rest of us have to. That's fair, isn't it? Everyone gets to play, so why shouldn't everyone have to pay something - even just a nominal amount? Wouldn't that be fair for everyone? After all, the extra revenues collected could be allocated to actually helping those who TRULY need and deserve the help of the government. Think about it.
Bernard Forand October 19, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling: "I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, e-mail, cell phones, etc. Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.
Bernard Forand October 19, 2011 at 12:13 PM
*Congressional Reform Act of 2011* 1. No Tenure / No Pension. A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office. 2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose. 3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do. 4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%. 5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people. 6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people. 7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
CowDung October 19, 2011 at 02:24 PM
#1--members of congress have the same retirement benefits as other federal employees. #2--as of January 1, 1984, all members of congress are required to participate in social security. #3--see #1 #5--Members of congress receive (and pay for) the same healthcare benefits as other federal employees. I believe that 'federal employees' are 'American people'. #6--what laws are members of congress breaking that are of concern? #7--what "contracts with past and present Congressmen" are you talking about?
CowDung October 19, 2011 at 02:46 PM
I think I agree with Robert here. I guess I don't think of 'suburbia' as being defined by an Ozaukee county location. Patzfahl's bio is very clear about where he lives, and while he may be a 'narrow minded liberal', I don't get any sense that he is 'pretending' to live anywhere else or be something he is not...
Robert Hansen October 20, 2011 at 01:14 AM
What facts do you have? I posted all kinds of things up above in the comments, even used the Koch brothers Heritage Foundation. I remember the last time I had a minimum wage job I had to have five roommates and I still had trouble making ends meet. Step out of your fantasy and go meet someone who is truly poor. Are you even human? Do you have no empathy? If your going to come on here and spread your right wing lies have the courage to use your real name at least. Post some links with real numbers and I'll look at them, but I sure as heck am not going to take your word as proof of anything.
Robert Hansen October 20, 2011 at 01:38 AM
as far as the "toys" they have, it is interesting to me that there are so many rent to own stores or payday loan stores in poor neighborhoods. Perhaps we could maybe not allow that sort of predatory businesses take advantage of people?. Perhaps we all need to tone down the greed in our society? Perhaps a new thrift movement? Perhaps we could have provided proper education in poorer areas all along? The tax structure is already unfair and burdensome for many in society, but folks like you that believe social mobility still exists in this country defend tax cuts for the most affluent among us. Then you cry victim because the poor aren't paying federal income tax but the have dvd players? Really? Glad your not my neighbor, you'd probably let my house burn if it was on fire because I didn't cut my grass every other day.
patchreader 123 October 20, 2011 at 02:00 AM
Bernard, perhaps you meant well by posting the "Congressional Reform Act of 2011," however, its basis is merely an inaccurate viral email that has been making the rounds. http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/congressional-reform-act/ http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/28thamendment.asp
James R Hoffa October 20, 2011 at 07:32 AM
@Robert Hansen - That's funny, I'm looking at your above posts, and mostly what I see is propaganda and rhetoric such as "[t]he GOP clown car rolls on," and "[p]retty sure that TEA actually stands for Take Everything Away," just to name a few and not including your insults of other's comments, which I've already covered. And you threw up some links with little or no analysis and want a pat on the back for doing so - I don't think so. FICA taxes pay for Medicaid and Social Security, which by design and original intent operate more like a government holding fund as opposed to a tax in that the payor of this tax is supposed to receive benefits in an amount equal to or greater than what they actual contribute of those taxes over their lifetime. The other taxes you mention, I've already debunked with FACTS. You can look up the specifics regarding the programs that I mentioned which allows low-income individuals to negate tax responsibility for necessities. And if they're purchasing items others than necessities, then they're not TRULY poor and should be contributing something, just like the rest of us. And BTW - I wish I could use my real name on here, however, when I did so on another board that I frequently comment on, left wing nuts like yourself looked up my address and phone number and made threats of violence against my family. I will not allow that to occur again, nor will I be silenced by people like you. Sorry, but that's how it is! Try again Mr. Hansen.
James R Hoffa October 20, 2011 at 07:42 AM
And I do have compassion for those that TRULY need and are deserving of such compassion. Previously, I was a social worker in Racine for almost 3 years. You can't imagine the abuses of government programs intended for low income individuals that I witnessed occurring. It was appalling and made me sick. 92% of my case load listed SSI as their only source of income because apparently, they were so disabled that they couldn't work. However, I saw these people at the park hanging with their friends, playing basketball, wondering the streets, and they managed to get along just fine. Couldn't work my @ss!!! These same people also almost always had lavish gold jewelry on every time they came to check in with me. If you think that’s all fine and dandy, tell you what – put your money where your mouth is and voluntarily pay more taxes upon filing your next return. Lead by example. Funny, I haven’t seen anyone on the left willing to do this for some reason or another. Either put up, or shut up in demanding that the rest of us pay more to fund this kind of nonsense!
James R Hoffa October 20, 2011 at 07:50 AM
@karen k - Please, enlighten us. What taxes do the poor actually pay? Sales taxes are imposed by the state, and the truly poor are able to take advantage of state sponsored programs that permit the exemption of sales tax application on necessities. What truly poor person spends money on anything other than necessities? So NO – the truly poor do not pay sales taxes unless they are using ‘their’ money for purchases other than necessities, in which case then they are fairly taxed. Currently, the main federal excise taxes are on petroleum-based fuels, tobacco products, and alcohol - none of which are necessities. So NO – the truly poor do not pay federal excise taxes unless they are using ‘their’ money to purchase these non-necessities, in which case then they are fairly taxed. As far as property taxes go as a pass-thru that renters charge their tenants, again the poor (or really anyone meeting qualifications despite not being truly poor) are able to take advantage of both federal (section 8, etc.) and state (RHD, Section 42, etc.) programs that assist such tenants by subsidizing their housing and/or providing direct rental payment assistance and/or tax credits. Ergo, these housing programs effectively negate any property tax pass-thru that such poor tenants would have otherwise been paying. So again, NO - the poor do not pay property taxes.
James R Hoffa October 20, 2011 at 07:57 AM
And the so-called 'payroll taxes,' as you call them, or FICA taxes, pay for Medicaid and Social Security, which by design and original intent operate more like a government holding fund as opposed to a tax in that the payor of this tax is supposed to receive benefits in an amount equal to or greater than what they actual contribute of those taxes over their lifetime. So is it really fair to call this a tax? Not really. Like you said, [d]ata is like a bikini, it's what it doesn't show that's the real story." So again I ask you, what taxes are the truly poor actually paying? Because unless they're really loading up on non-necessaries or aren’t taking advantage of every government program that they qualify for, I don't see how they're effectively paying any taxes at all. Maybe when you actually peal back that bikini, the story isn't actually how you presumed it to be, is it?
Bernard Forand October 20, 2011 at 12:47 PM
Patchreader; Just stopped by and noticed some of your spin. Independent?? You can see clouds from both sides?? Glass Houses?? Like the House that since Tea tainted republicans gained majority, Not One Job Bill Brought to the floor. Shoot them down, even their own job bills! 300 days ZERO Job bills! GE moving a plant to China. So what. They are also building a plant in Aurora Colorado to produce 400 MGW of panels per year. U.S. in 2010, total out put of solar panels was 875 MGW. Sizable investment in expanding solar panel production which will be in direct competition with China’s solar panel monopoly. GE is an international organization. Want their business then provide a fertile investment soils to attract them just as any other business.
Bernard Forand October 20, 2011 at 01:04 PM
Shielded from public view?? Like U.S. Secretary Of The Treasury Mr. Paulson. X CEO of Goldman Sachs. 2007 bundles up toxic mortgages to be sold on through Sachs derivatives markets as a winner’s bet, as he shorts it on the back side and reaps in the profits in 2008 with the housing collapse. Conflict of interest? J.P. Morgan, Chase, AG and so on doing the same as Paulson! Citigroup on Wednesday agreed to pay $285 million to settle a civil complaint by the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had defrauded investors who bought just such a deal. The transaction involved a $1 billion portfolio of mortgage-related investments, many of which were handpicked for the portfolio by Citigroup without telling investors of its role or that it had made bets that the investments would fall in value. That kind of backroom dealing you talking about? Want more of the same? 9-9-9 Flush with loophole corruptions.
Bernard Forand October 20, 2011 at 01:23 PM
Generally I do not bother with shoveling out the manure. Those with a tad of intelligence recognize manure. Now that I’m here just a small example of the BS you serve us on a daily bases. One “Welfare Health Care and Pensions” that elitist receive is not compatible with what federal employees relieve. As to the rest of our population, I’ll leave that for you to do some research. Hint 45,000/year die to lack of. Two; Laws to be equaly distributed. Observe Citigroup on Wednesday agreed to pay $285 million to settle a civil complaint by the Securities and Exchange Commission that it had defrauded investors who bought just such a deal. The transaction involved a $1 billion portfolio of mortgage-related investments, many of which were handpicked for the portfolio by Citigroup without telling investors of its role or that it had made bets that the investments would fall in value. Add Mr. Paulson U.S. Sectary Of The Treasury, J.P Morgan, Chase and so on. Legal on Wall Street? On Main Street, Not so much. 285 million for the billions in damage? Joe the plumber would have been imprisoned for life for less than that.. Now get your head out of that dung and seek fresh air and a bath.
CowDung October 20, 2011 at 01:34 PM
What are you even talking about? Does any of that have to do with the '7 points of manure' that you posted?
Bernard Forand October 20, 2011 at 02:00 PM
Cow Dung illuminates us with the ability to savor the fragrance of fresh air. Manure by any other name will still smell as foul.
CowDung October 20, 2011 at 02:41 PM
Thanks for the commentary about my name. What does that have to do with the crap you posted?
Robert Hansen October 21, 2011 at 12:57 AM
number one, this is a satire. I was making jokes based on the satire. Luckily you and your buddies with your lies and thin skin come on here and comment and therefor make the satire all the more humorous. As far as your case load with 92% on ssi, if as you say all of them were hanging out at the park, playing basketball, and wearing gold, I'm not one of those sheepish liberals you are used to and I'll tell you straight up you're full it. Are there people gaming the system? Yes. Is it as bad as you say? I seriously doubt it. The fact is that programs like social security are working. When implemented poverty rates among the elderly was 40%, now it is 10%. I would call that a huge success. The last thing I have to ask is, while you were a social worker, if you saw abuse in the system, did you report it? If not, then your equally as guilty aren't you.
Robert Hansen October 21, 2011 at 01:03 AM
This topic started on the 47% propaganda. 47% of the population is not on public assistance, so your presumption and "facts" are false. Just because you were a social workers doesn't mean you are compassionate as your posts clearly point out.


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