Why is it only about what the US will do? You continue to propagate this idea that the world would have been a better place today if the US would have kept out of foreign affairs. However, you have yet to provide any proof. You only say what we did and nothing about how our absence was beneficial.

When will Iran back down on its extreme stand against Israel? Is it possible that our stand is the correct course of action in order to protect the world from WWIII?

Is it possible our weakness screwed up Afghanistan? Maybe this a problem of not enough force. We should have torn butt through both countries, cleaned out every spider hole with a cruise missile and closed the boards until a stable government was established by the people. Instead, we did the hokey-pokey through both countries and created a mess.

I will finish as a started, your presumption that our might is the scourge of the planet is without proof, because our might has and could have done more had we not been so weak.

Brian do you have any concept of history? Not sure how old you are, but the world has always been at war, since the dawn of time. Are you looking for a utopia that simply does not exist?

Well the Bush 43 administration certainly didn't exhibit acumen in foreign affairs. The lessons of Afghanistan hard-learned by the former USSR was not appropriately taken into account, nor was our military properly armed for Afghanistan or the invasion of Iraq at the onset. We won't even go into the no-bid contracts that decreased support for our servicemen/women in these areas, and the introduction of "contractors" (mercenaries) that were far more expensive to deploy than trained U.S. soldiers and in fact caused a great deal of ill will after the fall of Iraq (no thank you, Blackwater).

The reasons for going to war or for military action are never fully presented to the populace, that's a given. I still have questions about the reasons stated for the first Iraq war.

Society will never be shed of its chickenhawks or the military/industrial complex. That's why we have to elect politicians who are patriotic enough to draw the line of where rewarding benefactors ends and protecting U.S. citizens (not just business interests) continues.

I have read international bloggers' comments concerning the US and what intriques me is that they are well aware that the American people do not keep up with foreign affairs. They seem to know that much of what the American government does is unknown to the average voter in this country. Consequently, much of their ire is focused on Washington, not the whole country.

JB...one not owned by corporations.... any thoughts come to mind? I dont see any in the running. Of course that doesn't make it right does it?

"The twin wars we have been involved in this past decade were debacles that profited only multinational corporations tied to the war industry. One point three trillion dollars, hundreds of thousands of innocent dead, thousands of patriotic young Americans killed and for what? Freedom?"

It has been done to maintain the FR Dollar as the World's Reserve Currency, and the exclusive fiat currency in which oil is traded.

Saddam wanted to trade oil for Eruo's. Invaded and killed.

Ghadaffi wanted a Gold Dinar not toilet paper fiat. Invaded and killed.

Saudi's rule at the whim of the US and are disposable.

Iran is trading oil for Euro's, Gold and possibly other. Slated for invasion and all leaders to be wiped out.

America is #1 - it is a POST-PEAK OIL World and we need to strangle the currency of other countries if we are to keep out standard of living - it's called CONSERVATION BY OTHER MEANS. By denying other oils, we can monopolize it. Our oil is found everywhere around the world, and it must be traded for in fiat Federal Reserve dollars (private central bank) and will be defended with the full force and might of the US military.

Look at a world map - Afghanistan has a border with China and Iran. We are there as a blocking position - it is a nuclear trigger against the Chinese - who, at this time, won't trip it.

China and Japan wrangle over nothing islands with oil reserves - http://www.economic-undertow.com/2012/09/22/disintegration/

Why not attack Venezuela while we are at it? They have the largest oil reserves in the world? Of course they are Christians...could be an issue there. But it hasn't stopped us from raping Latin America in the past.

RH your thesis is one that I think is pretty sound. Whoever wants to use their oil as THEY see fit...is not on our friends list. When they move to nationalize THEIR oil... they are deposed, or assasinated. We take our democratically elected leaders when we don't like who or what THEIR people are freely voting for. Increasingly my research underscores the idea that "bringing freedom to the world," only means extending and controlling markets and military outposts. I haven't always called that empire but I don't know what else to call it, given our power base, the spread of our control, and the actions of many of our administrations.

When I was a boy we learned about Abraham Lincoln's assassination. It was meant as a tale of shame and sorrow.... How could anyone kill an American President? I was in fourth grade when we were sent home following Kennedys assassination. Again, the sense I had was that the unthinkable had happened. Of course Martin Luther King and Bobby would follow.... yet this all seemed like madness....an evil.

I didn't know about the coups we ran in other countries, the leaders we schemed to kill, and even the democracies the US overturned in it's quest to contol countries, to run big US holdings without regulations, to control oil....etc. I had no idea this was American Policy....

I was naive. I loved my country blindly. Now I love my country deeply, but I look. At it's effects, I read the rhetoric skeptically, I watch to see who profits by our policies. Ad I am not willing, since Vietnam, to see other countries thrown under the bus so that I can over consume, live with frills and raise kids who only care about their own well being.

BRIAN I think you said it all when you said you were naive !!

Tom, i dont believe we have met. Care to extrapolate on your first bold comment. Normally, when you introduce yourself to a stranger, the first statement might be civil, might take into account that if your opinion is to have merit it requires some rationale, etc. Flesh it out...if I am still naive, illuminate me with some wisdom.

I thought you would have a more important question bothering the liberals at this very moment...."Will Big Bird be fired?"

JB.... You are setting up the past as a straw man asking me to PROVE things would have gone better for the planet had we made kinder and gentler decisions, had we done more to avoid war and to promote understanding. Obviously, I can't PROVE ANYTHING regarding the past nor can you. All we see is what has occurred and that through our subjective vision. To my subjective vision, two hundred million plus dead, do not make a good case for the efficacy of war as a strategy for progress. We have had this conversation before and it can't go anywhere as you ask for PROOF knowing it is impossible to produce as history has occurred, there aren't do overs, and the world and flow of human history is infinitely complex.

The perception of Imperialism is not my concern. The reality is. If Afghani drones were circling in the blue skies above your home, watching you and your family day in and day out, if some kid on the other side of the planet could decide for the hell of it, to kill you and your family, or if you had to live knowing that at any moment, you might be dead.... And could do nothing to defend yourself, you too, might take exception to such an overlord. One small small example. Can you link to all these countries that love american military bases and their history? I would like to read up on the great love held for our military presence.

JB....if you can prove any change to history would improve anything do so. That is a silly tactic at this point. You cant prove there was a man named Franklin Roosevelt. No one has proven linear time. Let me ask you this...I think you were or are married. Do you like life better in the relationship when you are fighting with each other or when you are getting along? Is there any reason to work on getting along better, more often, on maintaining peace and productive interactions? Has any fight you have ever had with her solved anything...the fighting itself causing better understanding, more positive feelings, etc?

JB

I think we have different definitions of the word "strength." My list of strong people would be very different than yours.... An assumption.

Craig... Is that satire? Are you ragging on Republican think? Or are you serious? If so... What are the ingredients in this liberal crap sandwich? I would love to know what sort of liberal brainwashing the folks younger than I here were dosed with and how they survived.

Steve...I think Mitt picked Big Bird as an issue if I recall correctly.... A key point he wanted to raise about how he would save the economy....and at a debate...not behind the curtains at some convention!

@Brian
It is you calling out the US for its past errors. To do so assumes that opposite was the correct path. I, as you, do not want people to die; however, your assumption is it was avoidable. Under what premise? The idea that if evil people were simply given hugs by the US President? If the leadership of Iran had only received a Harry & David's gift basket last Christmas they would have stopped building bombs? Or is the world better off removing the evil?

Your are correct, I would not like a country where I need to be concerned with death. I would like to point out that when we present the world a strong, don't mess with us, presence that doesn't happen. However, when we take your approach the Twin Towers are struck in '93, the Cole was hit, the Twin Towers were leveled and now a US ambassador is killed. Sounds like weakness invites those thing you claim we bring to others.

You are making an emotional argument against war. You are assuming that all people want to live in peace and harmony, because that is what makes emotional sense to you. That has been proven wrong, time after time. There were/are leaders that do not desire peace until they control all. The only way to strain those is with strength. Not subjective strength of character (because the Muslim brotherhood could careless about your deep concern for making society better), but with physical strength.

JB...you prefer to talk in extremes. Where did I suggest the US President should hug evil people or send gift baskets? Those type of remarks indicate that you aren't seriously considering what I say.... (I don't expect agreement mind you and I am sure we won't often agree.) when you imagine that someone who holds another idea is diametrically opposed to yours, is way off the scale of rational... To my mind, you exclude any opportunity for learning, for constructive dialogue, for simple understanding.

Emotionally I do not like war. Literally I do not see it's benefits to humanity. The grand achievements in human history...emotions aside....have not been made in or through warfare. Progress has always come through the work of peaceful humans...in the sciences, in philosophy, in religion, medicine, technology, etc. Economically war benefits the war industry and decimates others. Physically...does the planet benefit by war? This is not an emotional argument. List the great mutual benefits of war, particularly in a global economy...global world. There are none. The Twin Towers were hit because we were weak? I think we were THE Biggest Superpower on the block by then if not the ONLY superpower. You equate strength with massive militance and the resolve to apply it whenever who...some generals or some politician who sees fit feels the need? maybe the CIA can call the shots as they increasingly do with their own drone squads.

I equate strength with the wisdom to avoid violence except in extraordinary circumstances and, in those few cases, to gauge it to the level of the actual threat and direct it to the actual perpetrators of that threat. I equate strength with the wisdom to educate current and future generations as to the inter relatedness of humanity, of life itself, to the necessity for dialogue and understanding and to speak directly against injustice, inhumanity and decreation wherever it occurs.

Craig....safe to say we can add homophobia to your list of fears? I don't know what fear of the poor is called. And fear of puppets is also one I can't put a name to. Any other fears you would like to list publicly?

Actually I don't fear homosexuals or poor people. I am not afraid of clowns or most puppets. I do not like Ronald McDonald, but that is because of the wierd looks he gives kids. The only Puppet I fear is Barack Hussein Obama. While he has accomplished nearly nothing in 4 years, his ObamaCare will sink us in further debt. Our debt to GDP ratio SHOULD be everyone's concern, seems Obama is trying to finish the dreams of his father.
Another fours years of the same crap and we will not have medicare, medicaid, SS or SSDI. Once the money tree dies, we are screwed. What then?
Let China take over ?
By the way: I do have gay friends, poor friends, and some friends who think they are clowns--but no puppet friends.

Governor Gary Johnson has answered both of these questions on more than one occasion. Most recently, when interviewed by Larry King last week. It's too bad he's being blocked from participating in the television debates that are controlled by the Dems and Republicans.

Mr. Johnson as the Libertarian candidate is just as qualified to be president as Obama and Romney. He should be invited to the debates. It was great that a handful of sponsors backed out of the first debate based on Mr. Johnson's exclusion. I hope more will follow.

Until we get away from this corrupt two party system, we will never see real change in this county. I'm looking forward to "wasting" my Libertarian vote this November. Voting "for the lesser of two evils" is no longer an option for me.

I understand the sentiment. When other countries have four to six candidates, requiring much detailed debate and discussion and thought, so many people in th US are LP locked into black and white think....dem or rep.. Lib or conservative....as ough there are only two ways to think. It is pathetic, outmoded and is a huge disservice, IMO, to the country, to have only two effective choices each four years.

RHead... Many good points and a plausible scenario. My question to me is then, do I want to live the rest of my life saying nothing in opposition to what I see as gross injustice, rampant greed, the rape of the planet, the continued destruction of indigenous populations by administrations or more often now, corporations, the discounting of the value and sanctity of human life....do I want to serve the destruction in a sentence, or do I want to stand up, for whatever it's worth, and say I oppose this madness?

Sykes.... The line between satire and propaganda depends only on point of view. We live in a time of political comedy and comical politics.

Michael..... Google my song....Fools Command.mp4. I will check out Supertramp.

Nobama is bordering on hate speech if he hasn't already arrived there.... I am personally embarrassed for the white race when I hear his asinine suprematist words. I can't apologize for him...I don't know the person.... But I can say his post tonight competes for the bottom of what Patch has to offer...a vehicle for the dissemination of ignorance. Fortunately intelligent readers just see this display of ignorance and shake their heads. Once again though, the conservatives would do well IMO to speak up. What is your opinion of this conservatives rants?

Ok I read his whole pathetic statement. He is speaking as a racist. It's pure hate speech. If I was the editor I would flush this posting of his down so it could reside where it belongs.

Ahhhh, censorship at it's finest. Good job gents on shutting down free speach.

Brian: This is a question I think is in your area of expertise:
Where is the US involved in 'conflicts' that most people are not aware of?
How many troops do we have there?
Is there anyone keeping track of the deaths from said 'conflicts' the media doesn't talk about?
It is a serious question, I am not trying to bait you into anything.
My conservative friends can relax, I am not going to start beating any drums.

or am I?

:-P

Craig, not an expert. We have drone warfare goin on in Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan... All of which we have not declared war on. Drone warfare, as it doesn't require a boots on the ground invasion...allows the govt to get around formal declarations. Slick, but people die, things are blown up, civilians terrorized, etc, war is. War.

Keith... I find it very disconcerting that Romney wants two trillion for "defense" but hasn't specifically said why. sounds like a war budget.

Craig....Where was that stated? The wars together have cost one point three trillion over a decade. Give me a reference for Obama diphthong two trillion and Romney only trying to get it back up to pre-cut levels. Thanks.

Craig...agreed on the drones...but warfare is typically first economic. You might find John Perkins book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, very interesting relative to how our foreign policy works.

Craig... Yes not simple to understand but apparently, as far as I grasp it, Romney would direct that toward the military and Obama would send it to debt reduction or other non military items.

Nukes, all weapons of mass destruction, are such horrific devices, designed for such indiscriminate slaughter, that they are ALWAYS in the wrong hands. Their existence is an abomination. In the early sixties all of Kennedys trusted advisors, men of intelligence and good will, all AMERICANS, advised him to bomb Cuba....an act that would have resulted in nuclear retaliation and the end of the current world as we know it. Miraculously he resisted his entire staff and chose to negotiate....which is probably why we are alive. But we were at the edge with a majority voting to leap. There are people given and maybe only capable of thinking in abstractions..... And "nukes," becomes a lite slang term for what is an ignition of the atmosphere into an immense extremely intense fireball, a flash oven inside which most life is incinerated with all the evil of the ovens in Birkenau. Indiscriminate slaughter of children, infants, mothers, the old and infirm.... On a vast scale. That was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The most unfortunate died slowly from radiation poisoning and burns. We are all like children's holding hand grenades not understanding the potential consequences of our actions, or even our words.