That would be 450 layoffs due to the recession, which started before Obama took office. Revisionism much?

Blaming Bush is getting old.
B. Hussein has had four years, and made things worse.
Is anyone better off today than they were four years ago?

Defense contractors have been hurt by the recession? More like across-the-board budget cuts known as sequestration. Or it could be ALECs fault.

Bren, you really admitted here you have no idea what is going on.

1. We are not in a recession, what you are seeing is the slowest recovery since the great depression thanks to Obama.

2. These layoffs are due to cuts Obama put on the military due to sequestration. Something Biden lied about in the debate.

3. Blaming Bush, really?

Steve,

1. Have we returned to the pre-recession baseline? Answer: No.
2. Should we keep throwing tax money at the military industrial complex even when the equipment isn't needed? Answer: No. Government contracting is a world of its own, and I'm certain there's more to this story.
3. Blaming Bush? We were heading down this road for 15 years at least. Bush's policies exacerbated an evolving situation. It's not all Bush's fault, but the two unfunded wars, government employee hiring, and unnecessary tax cuts are his contributions and legacy.

@Bren -

Can you please explain, in detail, how "two unfunded wars, government employee hiring, and unnecessary tax cuts" all led to massive job losses here at home, as none of what you've mentioned would appear to contribute to job losses.

The worst President for our economy in the last 30 years has been Democrat William Jefferson Clinton - NAFTA (remember how Ross Perot warned that we'd all hear the sucking sound of outsourcing), favored trading nation status to China (even more outsourcing), and bank deregulation - all occurred under Clinton's 8 years.

At the DNC Convention, Obama appeared to be running on the Clinton platform - that's pretty scary for American jobs when one stops to think about it, isn't it?

Hardly any of it was Bush's fault - the only thing you can blame Bush for is $4T in new debt over 8 years.

So far, Obama's added $6T in new debt over 4 years.

Honestly, this country can't afford 4 more years of some one wanting to now return to Clinton era policy - there won't be anything left of the country when he's done!

For that last 2.5 years, Obama has been saying that we've turned the corner, that the recession is over, and that we are and have been in recovery:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/obama-yup-were-recovering/2012/10/18/bf6939a2-1962-11e2-aa6f-3b636fecb829_blog.html

But now, you're claiming that we're still in recession?!?!

Hoffa thinks then that Obama LIES according to Bren!

How can you back a LIAR?

The layoffs have nothing to do with the recession:

http://www.jsonline.com/business/oshkosh-corp-to-lay-off-450-workers-kl7bsnr-175853571.html

►Have we returned to the pre-recession baseline? Answer: No. ◄

Exactly. Obama is clueless and way over his head. Layoffs are not recession related. Oshkosh actually saw a huge increase in business because of the wars. I see two vehicles they made travel on a lowboy every 1/2hr on 45.

Keep blaming Bush, it's got to be so hard to admit Obama is a failure but I can keep reminding you daily.

How do you know it was Obama's fault layoffs occurred? Obama actually halted the freefall we were in, in 2008. How on Earth could anybody fix anything with the "Say No to Everything" party standing in his way and compromising on absolutely nothing for 4 straight years? Seriously, name one thing in four year where the GOP met the Dems halfway. (crickets chirping)

Do you even know what we are talking about "independent" badger? Or will you just ignore all of the articles linked about Oshkosh laying off 450 people and the reason why that is.

wow - that was the opening line of Charlie Sykes prelude to his program - LOL.
Funny how the 450 layoffs are "due to Obama" and not "due to Scott Walker".
I think visiting a city hit that has ups and downs is a smart thing to do - it shows the candidate is not whitewashing where we are at. I've yet to see where ANY national Republican has visited anywhere in Wisconsin except Waukesha County (except for Paul Ryan's visits to his hometown and Milwaukee for fundraisers).

Kenneth please explain to me how Walker has control over federal military spending. Thanks.

POLITIFACT: Romney is BIGGER LIAR Than Obama

42 percent of Romney’s comments are lies.
28 percent of Obama’s comments are lies

(Total of all Mostly False, False and Pants on Fire rulings.)
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/

At least he lies on his own. He doesn't focus-group his "opinions" every five minutes, like Romney does. Romney, the man who has been pro-choice, pro-life, anti-NRA, pro-NRA, pro-gay marriage, and anti-marriage equality, all within ten years.

Yep, they will even blame acts of terrorism on a video, then they will remark that 4 dead Americans is not optimal for their campaign.

Or they will stand behind a podium at the White House the day after the attack and denounce it as terrorism.

Greg, you can make it up or stick with the documented facts. What type of American are you?

@Bren
Obama lied the Ambassador DIED... even after asking for more security 3 times.

@Idiot Bren

The obama administration, for weeks, publicly blamed the deaths on the youtube video. Fact. Even Candy Crowley admits this.

If you cannot admit this, you are as dumb as the rest of us think.

"What type of American are you?"

A red blooded patriot, not some spineless hippie like you.

@Bren -

If Obama denounced it as terrorism on Sept 12 "behind a podium at the White House," as you claim, then why when asked directly by reporters from Univision, the ladies of The View, and others, of whether the attack was terror related, did Obama decline to answer affirmatively? Also denying it was terrorism all together were Obama administration spokespeople Susan Rice, Jay Carney, and Hilary Clinton.

In other words, why was the President contradicting himself?

Maybe it's because if you actually read the entirety of the speech Obama gave from the rose garden on Sept 12, he wasn't talking about Benghazi, but rather 9/11 and terrorism in general by the time he used the actual word 'terror.'

Even your beloved Candy Crowley acknowledge at the debate that Romney was correct in that Obama and his administration stated for 14 days after Sept 11, that the deaths were caused by a spontaneous protest related to an anti-Muslim film uploaded to YouTube back in July. VP Joe Biden stated at his debate with Paul Ryan that the only info they had from intelligence for 14 days is that the attack was spontaneous and caused by the YouTube film.

Context is everything, and actions after the fact speak far louder than words. What type of American are you to attempt to spin the truth just to support your candidate?

Emails from intelligence to the WH as the attack was happening confirmed that it was terrorism. Testimony given by senior officials to Congress also confirm that they knew immediately that the attack at Benghazi was a terrorist attack.

If we assume that what you state is correct, which it isn't, then that means that only Obama immediately knew that it was a terror attack - everyone else in his administration were all led to believe, and allowed to tell the American people, that it was a spontaneous attack caused by a YouTube video.

So, the question then becomes, why did Obama keep this a secret from Jay Carney, Susan Rice, Hilary Clinton, and others in his administration? Why did Obama allow all of his underlings to LIE to the American people? What purpose would that serve if he had already announced it to the world in the rose garden on Sept 12 that it was a terrorist attack?

None of that makes any sense. The logic of your argument just doesn't hold up, Bren!

So stop perpetuating a bunch of LIES, and start opening your eyes and thinking!

As to Romney - he didn't misrepresent anything at all.

From the article you linked to, here is what said:

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said at a rally in Defiance, Ohio, home to a General Motors powertrain plant. "I will fight for every good job in America. I'm going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it's fair America will win."

According to Bloomberg "Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region."

Romney would rather see those Jeeps destined for the Chinese market manufactured here, as opposed to in China. And what is so wrong with that?

Oh, you thought that Romney had said that he believed that Jeep was going to outsource all of its current US jobs. But that's not what he said at all.

Bren - all you're proving today is that your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible because you read everything with your predisposed bias of extreme partisanship, assumption, and conspiracy theory.

Better quit while you're behind!

BTW - The Detroit News endorsed Romney/Ryan!

OC - you are at a level 10, man. You need to be at a level 4.

I know we are all passionate about our possitions, but the constant personal insults just aren't needed.

We are all Americans. Though we disagree about how to tackle our problems, we all love our country the same in the end and need to work together no matter what paths our elected officials choose.

The rhetoric doesn't help anyone.

Greg - sometimes people who are called hippies don't consider it an insult.

Spineless sure, but there are times (most times, actually) standing for peace and non violence does take more courage.

It was not an insult, unless one takes it that way. A courageous hippie is few and far.

Amen. Has Romney ever told the truth? It's creepy how he'll just tell a bold-faced lie, and then do that weirdo smile, and all the rightists around here just melt. But Obama tells Sykes, Belling, Limbaugh, Coulter, Levine, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of the so-called "liberal" media that the sky is blue, and their only response is to demand birth certificates and larger flag lapels.

James Hoffa,

Did you see that Obama has gotten many more newspaper endorsements than Romney? Go Obama!

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/2012_newspaper_endorsements.php

Why should it surprise anyone that Obama gets more newspaper endorsements? The more telling number is the figures that indicate how many newspapers changed their endorsements from one party to the other since the last election. Romney is up 8 against Obama in that category...

More proof that the media is bias to the left.

I thought Conservatives were all in favor of cutting federal spending? Oh, unless it's for defense, which benefits business. Laying off the same number of teachers, firefighters, other government employees is a good thing, though.

And yes, George Bush, who cuts taxes and then spent us into this hole, is much to blame.

But Randy, Obama was going to fix all that.

And the Bush tax cuts expired....that will help the middle class.
it is a vicious circle, and the middle class is getting hammered.

@Greg -- The Bush tax cuts haven't expired yet. And frankly, I'd be willing to pay extra when they do, just to get us out of this hole. No, that won't help the middle class, but it would reduce the deficit.

Randy, they are so all over the map on this one. There are so many variations and about-faces on issues it's dizzying. Spend more money on defense--with so many Bush advisers on the Romney foreign policy team we should probably expect more unfunded military actions. It's all about rewarding contractors, after all. National and International security are low priorities.

The Bush tax cuts expired Dec 2010. They were extended to Dec 2012.
48 Million Americans on food stamps- of those, many are working.
How do you suppose they can afford a tax hike?
What about those of us who are self reliant, but struggling to make ends meet?
The tax sunset will do nothing to reduce the deficit. It is a perverbial drop in the bucket.

Randy: We have about 150 Million workers in the US. (rounded off for simplicity)
If each worker pays an extra $1000 in taxes, that will equal $150 Billion.
It is hardly a dent in the $1.3 Trillion the Gvt. spends each year.
Those just making it will need help in the form of food stamps or other programs.
The only viable option is to cut spending first. Bren's comment about War spending isn't relevant without regaining controll of our debt. We won't need a military if we can not honor our debt obligations.
Whatever Country that has the money to bail us out will be in controll.

@Oak Creek -- Thank you for your input. I consider that to be high praise.

@Craig -- I'm sure you know that the President wanted the cuts extended only for those in the lowest brackets, not for those who are doing quite well and won't be out on the street if they pay an extra 4% on their top marginal income.

@Craig -- Then where do you want to cut the spending? Big Bird and Planned Parenthood are an even more minuscule drop in the bucket than the return to 2001 tx rates. Ryan's cuts were primarily to Medicaid and food stamps and other programs that help those people who are already barely getting by. His philosophy seems to be 'anywhere BUT defense'.

How about a balanced approach of cuts and raised taxes? This was considered to be fiscal responsibility back in my youth.

Randy: I fear the only solution is to make cuts and raise taxes. Raising taxes now would be a huge burden on too many. So I would argue for cuts now and tax hikes a little later down the road. The guy working a regular job can't require his employer to give him a raise, but he can eliminate things in his budget that are not needed.
I think we both have the same impression of fiscal responsibility, I fear the Government does not. Hence, we have this fecal storm we are in. ;)

The proposed tax increases from Obama will do nothing to remedy the federal deficit/debt.

Even if Obama were to receive all the tax increases he is currently asking for, the OMB and CBO have projected that another 4 years of Obama will add another $4-5T of additional accrued federal debt, with the federal debt reaching over $20T by the end of 2016.

Romney brought this up at the last debate and Obama did not refute it.

Obama doesn't have a plan that balances the federal budget - he just wants more money for government to spend.

@Randy, I thought liberals were all in favor of paying more taxes; why haven't you been putting your money where mouth is and paying more taxes to help reduce the deficit? Because George Bush said it was OK?

Talk about liberal hypocrisy, character is what you do when nobody's looking and the definition of fiscal responsibility is not spending more than you make. A "balanced" approach means $99 in spending cuts for every $1 of additional taxes.

I don't know about other 'liberals', Adam, but I'm in favor of well-off people paying at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as people who have very little to begin with.

OK, forget other liberals. Why won't YOU do the right thing unless first compelled by the state Mr Moral Highground?

Are you asking why I don't make a gift to the federal government over and above the taxes I already pay? Because I like to eat. I already pay 33% of my gross income (not the AGI, the gross income) in some tax or other, and that income is nowhere near as large as Mr. Romney's. I don't have a lot left over.

How much money do you 'gift' to the government, Mr. Wienieski?

Unlike you I'm not willing to pay more taxes so the government can pick economic winners and losers, redistribute wealth to rent seeking political allies and turn the country into a welfare dependent social democracy. Mitt Romney paid 2 million in taxes and gave 4 million to charity; did he get more liberty for his money or better roads and fire protection than someone like yourself who only paid several thousand?

The top 5 percent of income earners pay 60 percent of all federal income taxes and the bottom 47 percent pay no income tax at all and yet class warriors insist the wealthy are not paying their fair share. If government at all levels is taking so much of your income you can't afford to eat does the light bulb ever come on that perhaps we have more government services than we want, need or can afford?

Unlike you, Mr. Wiesnieski, I'm not willing to pay more in federal income taxes on top of the overall tax burden I already have so that people like Mitt Romney can keep an extra quarter million to feed a dressage horse.

If you look at the overall tax burden -- FICA, sales, excise, real estate, etc. -- the bottom 50% is paying its fair share, and on a lot less income.

I also don't report my charitable giving.

It would have saved us a lot of trouble if you had just admitted at the top of this post that you were a George Bush republican on the issue of taxation rather than a prevaricating compassion monger who was "willing to pay extra."

You can confiscate all the wealth from all the Mitt Romney's of the country and it runs the government for several months. We have a spending and entitlement problem that can't be fixed by eating the rich.

@Randy1949 -

FICA is a program that you claim to want, because you prefer government treating you like a child as opposed to like an adult.

Sales, excise, and property taxes are all consumption based taxes - do the wealthy not also pay more of those taxes on a per capita basis?

If you don't want to pay FICA, then would you support eliminating the program?

"If you don't want to pay FICA, then would you support eliminating the program?"

That's an interesting question, since I've seen no mention of eliminating the FICA tax -- just adjusting the way the benefits are paid out.

@Jean Hoffman -

Actually, that's not true at all.

How much are you being paid by leftists/liberals/Democrats to troll a SE Wisconsin Patch site from Cuyahoga Falls, OH?

The Obama campaign has to resort to lies to distract from a failed record. Jean was caught hook like and sinker.

James- Give me the facts then, with your linked sources. Otherwise, you're just spewing fiction again, Mr. Hoffa.

@Jean Hoffman -

We can get into facts once you explain 1) why you are trolling a SE Wisconsin Patch site from Cuyahoga Falls, OH, 2) how much you are being paid to do so, and 3) whom it is that's paying you to do so.

@Jean -

Just to give you a sneak peak of how easy it is to debunk your so-called 'facts' we'll start with this one:

"Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents"

We'll focus on debt accrued since the Carter administration, as prior to that, it was a pretty even wash.

When Reagan (R) took office, the debt stood at $909B. When Reagan left office, the debt stood at $2.601T. Thus, Reagan added $1.692T over 8 years.

When HW Bush (R) took office, the debt stood at $2.601T. When Bush left office, the debt stood at $4.001T. Thus, HW Bush added $1.400T over 4 years.

When Clinton (D) took office, the debt stood at $4.001T. When Clinton left office, the debt stood at $5.728T. Thus, Clinton added $1.727T over 8 years.

When W Bush (R) took office, the debt stood at $5.728T. When W Bush left office, the debt stood at $10.627T. Thus, W Bush added $4.899T over 8 years.

When Obama (D) took office, the debt stood at $10.627T. On January 20, 2012, the CBO has projected the debt to stand at $16.556T. Thus, Obama added $5.929T over 4 years.

Totals:
Republicans: $7.991T over 20 years
Democrats: $7.656T over 12 years

Source: US Treasury Direct
http://www.savingsbonds.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

As you can clearly see, the amount of debt added by the parties is about equal. The difference is that it took the Democrats 12 years to add as much as the GOP did over 20 years.

Hoffa - 1
Jean Hoffman - 0 and a LIAR!

@Jean... why were you spending the day at the park and not working like the rest of us?

Jean works in the alley after bar close.

@Jean Hoffman -

How much are you being paid by leftists/liberals/Democrats to troll a SE Wisconsin Patch site from Cuyahoga Falls, OH?

umm cause it's a liberal hell hole that votes for liberal presidents... Why not tell us how Awesome Obama is. Ready set go!

"Jean" is posting this crap all over Patch, apparently "she" has other screen names registered in other states. Obama must continue he failure onto paid posters, can't even get good help here.

@Hoffa.... cause she knows OH is lost and is desperate to try and save WI for Barry Oh NO

do you know what damage control is?

Time will tell whether production will move to China. Most of the components are probably already manufactured there.

I understand a right-wing blogger misinterpreted the originating report (I posted link elsewhere) and it death-spiraled from there. Gotta read the article and do your own fact-checking before handing it over as a talking point! True for any industry.

You know who has the right to be very annoyed by this? Jeep, because this bit of info could really damage brand loyalty and sales unless refuted.

True. If I were over there I'd be analyzing data across the spectrum to determine impact. You raise an interesting point, Randy. To what degree can a political campaign be held accountable for sale loss?

I don't think this gaffe represents malicious attempt to undermine an evolving Obama success story. I'd make a small "spectral" wager that an intern found the right wing blogger's screed, handed the factoid off to a strategist who then spoon-fed it to the candidate.

Well, I'm guessing that Chrysler/Jeep will not be donating to Mitt's campaign, if it ever did.

Looking at used cars yesterday, I told the dealer we want to buy our vehicles before they are all made in China. It's been 10 years since we bought our last used one. At least now we still have somewhat of a chance of getting something at least partially American made. But at this point the pickings are slim already.

@carolo & @Bren & @Randy1949 -

Apparently, all of you guys are really bad at readings comprehension!

From the article Bren linked to, here is what Romney said:

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said at a rally in Defiance, Ohio, home to a General Motors powertrain plant. "I will fight for every good job in America. I'm going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it's fair America will win."

According to Bloomberg "Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region."

Romney would rather see those Jeeps destined for the Chinese market manufactured here, as opposed to in China. And what is so wrong with that?

Oh, you thought that Romney had said that he believed that Jeep was going to outsource all of its current US jobs. But that's not what he said at all.

All you guys are proving today is that your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible because you read everything with your predisposed bias of extreme partisanship, assumption, and conspiracy theory.

Better quit while you're behind!

BTW - The Detroit News endorsed Romney/Ryan!

@JRH -- "I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China,"

I guess that depends on your interpretation of 'all production'. What did you think that meant?

@Randy1949 -

Jeeps are currently sold in China. Those Jeeps sold in China are largely manufactured here. If Jeep starts up production in China for Jeeps that are destined to be sold in the Chinese market, then such Jeeps will no longer be manufactured here, thus all production for Chinese market destined product will have moved, having been outsourced to China. That's less demand for the American made product. With less demand, don't you think that there will be layoffs at those Jeep plants located here?

Come on Randy - this is common sense 101! You're smarter than this, aren't you?

That's a far cry from saying that 'all' production would be moved to China so that we Americans would be buying Jeeps made in China. I can't say as I'm happy about any Jeeps being made in China, frankly.

Thank you for the good laugh. Where is the media reporting on this joke of a VP. Seems all they can report on are the misspeaks of the Republicans.

Keith,
This is a MUCH BETTER LAUGH. And, has 2 million views.

It's Romney explaining his positions on the issues. Would love to hear your comments on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgfzknYd20&feature=plcp

Romney has more money than he could ever spend, and every day, with interest earned, could hire one person and pay them a decent wage and benefits. Nice! If he cares so much about providing good paying jobs for America, he should underwrite some jobs for small companies that need workers but can't afford to pay them.

Romney donates 30% of his income to his church and other causes. Practicing Mormons donate many volunteer hours of to their church. I am sure his entire family has done their stint of missionary work.

How much DOES he pay his employees in wages and benefits?

@Jean Hoffman -

Actually, that's not true at all. Romney is proposing to keep the capital gains taxes where they currently are for the wealthy, at 15%, and wants to eliminate it all together for those making less than $200k/yr.

How much are you being paid by leftists/liberals/Democrats to troll a SE Wisconsin Patch site from Cuyahoga Falls, OH, repeatedly spewing nothing but LIES?

@Bren -

What you were just saying about fact checking for yourself before tossing your hat into the mix?

You're a big HYPOCRITE!

Jean explain this:
Obama.com, a website owned by an Obama fundraiser who lives in China but has visited the Obama White House 11 times, sends solicitations mostly to foreign email addresses and links to the Obama campaign website's donation page.

The Obama website, unlike those of most campaigns, doesn't ask for the three- or four-digit credit card verification number. That makes it easier for donors to use fictitious names and addresses to send money in.

Campaigns aren't allowed to accept donations from foreigners. But it looks like the Obama campaign has made it easier for them to slip money in. How much foreign money has come into the Obama campaign?

Lefty envy is such an ugly thing!
I have yet to figure out how paying over $4,000,000 in income taxes is a bad thing.
How much is "their fair share"?

@mau -- "Romney donates 30% of his income to his church and other causes."

Only for the year 2011. Over the last 20 years it has been more like 13.5% and 10% of that is required as a tithe by the LDS church.

@Randy1949 -

Can you provide a source please.

@JRH -- http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/21/tax-records-romney-donated-29-percent-of-income-to-charity-in-2011/

First paragraph reads: "Mitt Romney has donated nearly 13.5 percent of his income to charity over the last 20 years, according to a statement from his accountants at PricewaterhouseCoopers."

IN OTHER WORDS = EPIC FAILURE!
ROMNEY/ RYAN 2012 IS THE EASIEST CHOICE I WILL EVER MAKE!

And potentially one of the worst.

@Joseph Robert -

Killed bin Laden with the aid of torture interrogations that he promised he wouldn't use - LIE.

Most allies respect us less, tells Putin "I'll have more flexibility after the election" - LIE.

Killing leaders of "Al Qaida," but not protecting our Ambassador and other Americans - all he did was engage us in a tit-for-tat - LIE.

Imposed Iranian sanctions only after strongly opposing them for most of his term - LIE.

Gaddhafi was actually on our side for the most part when he was killed - can the same be said about the new government - LIE.

Promised us there wouldn't be any mandate or taxes on the middle class in his healthcare bill, remember - LIE.

DADT worked well, who cares - LIE.

He previously opposed same-sex marriage until his campaign for re-election started - LIE.

Equal pay was always on the books, all he did was extend the statute of limitations to an unreasonable amount of time - LIE.

Less people working today, receiving lower wages, and more people on government assistance than ever before such as SSI, food stamps, UI, welfare, etc. - LIE.

Promised 5M jobs and unemployment below 5.4% would result from stimulus, but then laughed off that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we expected," remember, plus it cost us $1T we didn't have and added to the $6T in new Obama debt (after he promised to cut deficit in half during his first term) - LIE.

More soldiers killed in Iraq/Afghan under 4 years of Obama than 8 years of Bush, and he promised to end both on day 1, which he didn't do - LIE.

His reform impacted small banks more than large Wall Street banks, while financial banks are still allowed to collude with commercial banks - LIE.

Carter's auto bailout made the taxpayers $350M in interest payments, while Obama's auto bailout cost the taxpayers $50B, and he promised that we'd be able to watch WH negotiations on C-SPAN 3 but crony deal with UAW took place behind closed doors - LIE.

And there's so much more he LIED about!

Go Obama - back to Chicago or your "home country" of Kenya!

ROMNEY/RYAN/THOMPSON 2012!!!

You jackasses want the monkey we have in office to ruin this country worse than he has already? If Osambo gets re-elected, the civil uprising will begin!

Mike, seriously, the monkey and Osambo references. Knock it off.

@Kenneth London -

Romney already said numerous times that the loopholes he'll close will not effect middle income tax payers, which he considers to be under $200k/yr individual or $250k/yr joint AGI.

Is it really that hard to understand?

Where's Obama's plan to balance the budget while creating jobs? Hiring teachers is all Hoffa's heard, but 50% of the graduates we have now can't find work, so increasing the number of educated people in the labor pool will help jobs and wages how exactly?

LOL! Are you kidding Hoffa?

C.J., unless you were born after Obama took office you should remember that the Great Recession began before. You must ask yourself, "Who was president before Obama?" It was George W. Bush.

Obama and his team saved our economy from sliding into a full-on depression and kudos for that. They have also begun cleaning up Bush's pathetic implementation of Clinton's Homeland Security program, cleaning up the unfunded wars and unfinished business with Osama bin Laden, deporting more illegal aliens from this country, stepping up domestic oil production over his predecessor, etc. It's profoundly obvious that there is a forward-thinking, effective plan in place, hampered only by Tea/GOP obstruction.

I believe you have been sadly misled about what Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan/Ayn Rand/Tommy Thompson have planned for our country. I'm voting for Obama because Romney has no respect for 47% of the country, changes his opinions to suit the audience, hasn't a developed plan as Obama clearly does, and I have no time for his arrogance. Paul Ryan wants to undermine Medicare, which was established because seniors couldn't obtain affordable private health care. No thanks. Tommy Thompson was all about rewarding cronies as governor, and after years "consulting" (lobbyist) in DC has even more friends to reward now.

Protect our children and grandchildren and give Obama a second term.

@Bren -

Hoffa is still waiting for you to explain how 'tax cuts, two unfunded wars, and increasing the size of government,' which you attribute to W Bush, created the economic conditions that we now face.

In reality, Clinton created the large trade imbalances with legislation such as NAFTA and giving China favored trading nation status, which led to outsourcing of jobs, and deregulated banks, which you blame for the financial meltdown.

At the DNC convention, it sure sounded like Obama was advocating returning to Clinton era policies.

Good lord - WHY??? Those are the policies that got us into this mess, not all the irrelevant crap that you blame on Bush!

As for most of your LIES about Obama's (non) achievements, see Hoffa's response to Joseph Robert above. As to the remainder - Obama wants to give amnesty to illegal aliens and oil production is actually DOWN on public lands under Obama.

And way to use the Democratic talking points to trash Romney/Ryan/Thompson, simply because you have no truth to support such an assessment.

Currently, Medicare pays out more in benefits than people pay in. That is not sustainable. Where's Obama's plan to fix it? Romney/Ryan have proposed reforms that will not raise taxes on people and preserve the longevity of the program. Obamacare alone raids $700B+ from Medicare and imposes new taxes largely on the middle class! No thanks.

Try again!

Protect our children and grand children:

Vote ROMNEY/RYAN/THOMPSON 2012!!!

The 'entire' speech? No, but i did listen to enough of the segment about the 47% to hear it in context, and that context was ugly. Ugly and ignorant to conflate the 47% who pay no federal income taxes with the roughly 49% of households who have at least one member on some form of government assistance.

Even that was bad enough. Unemployment compensation is something you get when your employer decides he has no further use for you, and Social Security/Medicare is something you paid for your your entire working life. No lack of personal responsibility in either case.

@Randy1949 -

But you fail to acknowledge the context - a targeted campaign strategy.

Obama did a video called African Americans for Obama, remember? There's no video that Hoffa could find called White Americans for Obama, Asian Americans for Obama, Native Americans for Obama, etc.

Guess that means that Obama only care about African Americans, right?

Is it right that SS/Medicare pay out more in benefits than most people pay into the system over their lifetimes? Who's supposed to pay for those benefits?

Where's the personal responsibility Randy?

@JRH -- "Obama did a video called African Americans for Obama, remember? There's no video that Hoffa could find called White Americans for Obama, Asian Americans for Obama, Native Americans for Obama, etc."

If I recall, Hoffa insisted he had searched the net for any 'groups' of Native Americans for Obama (among other ethnicities) and found none. Whereas i found that very group on the Obama/Biden website. So now you're narrowing it to Youtube videos. Slick.

While there may be no official group name Rich Jerks for Romney, we all know that's the group he was addressing in Boca Raton.

Hoffa, what about the many Americans who die before the age of 66 and never collect any Social Security at all?

@Randy1949 -

It was always about the video - not "groups." Remember, Obama is Mr. equality of outcome - there should be a video for all groups if he's truly about equality as he claims to be.

Clearly, Obama care more for African Americans than other demographics of the population, using the logic that you apply to Romney.

So, how can you support such an openly RACIST candidate for President?

Even Ed Schultz of MSNBC admits that Obama is racist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AedYE_WNlv8

Tell me again what Mitt Romney knows about well-paying jobs? Please list for me the companies that he turned around by keeping on all the employees and preserving their wages and benefits. Sure, you can balance a budget as long as you're willing to throw people under the bus.

Romney might be able to create jobs but employees will be owned by their employees and forced for a meager pay without union protection=new age slaves.

Companies are not in business to employ people.

Which is why Mitt Romney should not be using his successful business experience as a reason to vote for him.

Because you do not understand business? Do you think it is smart for a business to hire people just to employ more people?

@Randy1949 -

What people do Romney want to throw under the bus - and be precise please?

@Fred van der Wal -

Indulge in liberal conspiracy theories much? You're spending way too much time over on the Daily Kos - come back to reality!

@Hoffa -- People going under the bus will be those on the margins of the social safety nets (the entitlements) that will be cut to balance the budget. People who would have been able to find health insurance under the ACA but will not if it's repealed. People who will no longer be eligible for Medicaid once the rules are tightened. Families who have an elderly relative in a nursing home who may no longer be eligible for medicaid. The future generations of retirees who will have a harder time getting medical care. Students who can't 'borrow from their parents' to attend college and will deal with higher debt or lower income because they don't have a degree at all. People who rely on some of those tax credits and deductions that may end up being capped at a much lower level than promised once reality sets in.

As for balancing the budget in the business sense, those people who lost their jobs or their benefits, only to have Mitt chastise them for being the 47%. I'd call that getting thrown under the bus.

@Randy1949 -

So, in other words, you've got nothing other than a lot of partisan propaganda, speculation, assumption, conjecture, etc.

Is it fair that most people who are on some form of means tested government assistance have cell phones, some form of pay TV service, flat screen TVs, etc?

Greg - I absolutely agree with you that companies are not in business to employ people. They are in business to make a profit and one of the highest (if not THE highest) costs are payroll. So, yes. Companies do everything they can to keep costs down. This proves two points.

One: Supply side economics does not work. Demand side works as with more demand from product, the higher the need for companies to hire.

Two: there is a reason for government and union involvement in the implimentation of minimum wage. To keep payroll down, companies pay as little as possible - thus leaving workers with barely enough income to live. In the case of working poor, which we would all be in Supply Side Economics, it's not enough.

Business is not responsible to create jobs. This is why the Ryan/Romney/Thompson/Walker plans flat out don't work.

1) Demand side(?) really only provides for higher pricing. Why should a company hire when they can make more profit by selling less product?

2) The increase in minimum wage only increases the cost of products to the consumers and limits entry level positions. Increase the minimum wage to let's say $20, the cost of a loaf of bread ends up costing $10, where is the working poor better off? At the same time you have discouraged business from taking a risk on hiring unproven unskilled workers, many of whom are working poor.

As to your conclusion, business does create jobs, which is different than being in business TO create jobs, so favorable environments for business will result in possible job creation. Where as the Obama/Baldwin idea, of taxing business out of business and hiring everyone to work for the government, is what does not work.

FTT, Nice job of redirecting the conversation to insert your union newsletter talking points.

Greg.

It's not a union talking point. It is what I truly believe. I am not part of a union. Never have been. I am not under the illusion that if it wasn't for workers organizing, I wouldn't enjoy the benefits of employment I do.

I also disagree with your premise. Increased income does not lead to increased prices. Increased prices are due to increase demand.

Your premise sounds good on paper. It just isn't reality.

And by the way - you are the one who brought up business and its purpose in creating jobs. I was just agreeing with you.

Wait, increasing wages does not increase the product cost? So the evil corporations have been lying to us!

Greg - I think you have caught me exagerating. I am guilty. I am sorry. I would like to apologize to you and other Patch followers for the exageration to prove my point. You have a degree of rightness. If you pay all your employees $1 mil. annually, yes the bread my cost $10. I recant the word all and the impression I gave that demand has everything to do with profit.

A great deal of the corporations in this country are evil, though. I will agree with that.

Whenever I work up a quote for my company, I always include the labor cost component in the price paid by the customer. Higher labor costs do indeed mean higher prices for the customer, independent of demand for the product.

A single baker only has to sell 6,850 everyday of the year to support his million dollar wage. He's gonna be busy.

Only 6,850?

That should be easy... maybe not without anyone having money...

KIDDING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm only kidding.

HA

@Deadprogress @dikesrdumb @fools&msnbc #we heard the same before the recall

Maddow is a lefty moron!

@lyin' morninmist -

Your re-posted garbage is getting stupider everyday as Romney increases his lead in the polls!

@Greg
Reuters must be 'lefty moron' also: (insert sarcasm).
Enjoy:

The strange disappearance of Paul Ryan
By Nicholas Wapshott
October 24, 2012

...Yet since becoming Romney’s personal ambassador to the feisty GOP base, Ryan has fizzled. His big three contributions have hardly lived up to the promise invested in him by so many conservative big-wigs. .... Where the chapter and verse on how to find enough tax loopholes to stimulate the economy into creating 12 million new jobs over four years? Where the dazzling intellect we were told so much about?

Before the debate, Wallace had spotted something was amiss. “A number of top Republicans say that, when Romney picked you as his running mate a little over a month ago, that they thought that this indicated that you guys were going to run a bold reform agenda campaign,” he told Ryan. “And they are now expressing some frustration that instead of you changing Romney – you’ve heard this – that they feel that Romney is changing you.” Wallace quoted Scott Walker, the strike-breaking governor of Wisconsin. “I just haven’t seen that kind of passion” from Ryan, Walker complained, blaming it on “pushback from some of the folks in the national campaign.”....

‏@SpudLovr

RT @MaryErpenbach: "Hidden away lest he frighten the horses." From "Whatever happened to Paul Ryan?" http://reut.rs/PqJg33 #wiunion #wiright

Yes, lefty morons. Just start reading it, what strike did Walker break??? I think the strike was in Chicago. M-O-R-O-N-S, both the writers and those that would repost it.

Greg - you are an interesting study.

You can calmly and rationally shoot down my arguments - which you totally did on the wages/cost to customer discussion/argument. A little sassy, but well within reason. But here you are all fired up.

Did the word Maddow set you off, or is the feeling directed more at morninmist?

I calmly and rationally shot down these arguments. Not fired up yet.

Ok - just checking.

When I see the word moron used, I do tend to get a little worried.

I do enjoy rational discussion with those who disagree with me... even when they catch me exagerating : )

CowDung - WHERE YOU AT???

You always good for a little "Troy Shooting Down."

@morninmist -

Most recent OH polls show a dead even race, with Obama losing his lead - you're right, that is great news!

More good news for H. and his imaginary friend.

@MikeJ500: Largest newspaper in swing state of #Ohio endorses Obama, saying he's faced GOP "belligerence" http://www.politicususa.com/cleveland-plain-dealer-endorses-obama-criticizes-gop-belligerence-swagger.html … #politics

@lyin' morninmist -

Detroit News endorses Romney/Ryan!

How many Patch discussions are you going to spam with this identical message?

Here is more good news:

Obama at 49 pct, Romney 46 pct nine days before election: Reuters Poll
Source: Rueters/FP

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama has extended his narrow lead over Republican challenger Mitt Romney among likely voters in a race that remains statistically tied nine days before the election, according to a Reuters/Ipsos tracking poll released on Sunday.

Obama has a 49 percent to 46 percent edge over Romney, marking a 1 point increase from Saturday but still within the daily online survey’s 4 percentage-point credibility interval for likely voters.

Swings could be possible in the remaining days of the campaign, however. Fifteen percent of registered voters say they could still change their minds and vote for a different candidate.

The precision of Reuters/Ipsos online polls is measured using a credibility interval. In this case, the poll has a credibility interval of plus or minus 4.0 percentage points for likely voters.

Read more: http://www.firstpost.com/world/obama-at-49-pct-romney-46-pct-nine-days-before-election-reuters-poll-506135.html

@lyin morninmist -

All other national polls still showing Romney with a commanding lead the current momentum!

Onward to victory - ROMNYE/RYAN/THOMPSON 2012!!!

@lyin' morninmist -

Much more convincing website:

http://www.romney-democrats.com/

@lyin' morninmist -

Only a habitual LIAR, such as yourself, would listen to anything that the habitual LIAR Stephanie Cutter says!

@lyin' morninmist -

Only you would be cheering about people being negatively effected by the weather - utterly despicable!

@Hoffa -- I'm sad to report that elsewhere I'm reading jubilant comments about the bad weather suppressing voter turnout among minorities. And so it goes.

@Randy1949 -

Hoffa didn't make any "jubilant comments about the bad weather suppressing voter turnout among minorities" else where on the Patch or any other website for that matter.

Making stuff up Randy - that's not like you at all. What gives?

Hoffa deserves an apology!

Did i say it was Hoffa making the comments? No, I didn't. But I am, unfortunately reading stuff like that on other message boards, not the Patch, and not made by Hoffa.

@Randy1949 -

Sorry - Hoffa stands corrected and was confused by the way your comment was formatted.

morninmist is actually on this website, the Patch, and is cheering the fact that people on the east coast are being negatively effected by the weather, which Hoffa personally finds disgusting!

Hoffa hasn't seen anywhere on the Patch where the usual right-wing commentators are cheering the "bad weather suppressing voter turnout among minorities," so not really sure why Randy is bringing this up here.

You can find just about anything on the web, merely by looking for it. morninmist is one of the regular lefties that posts here on our Patch community - you know this.

We were just discussing out-of-state trolls not that long ago, and now you want to bring up comments being made on other websites?!?! To what end or purpose?

Honestly Randy, this is getting ridiculous! Can't we focus on policing those that are actually in our Patch community, instead of trying to police commentators on other websites from this website?

Sorry to confuse you, Hoffa. But you had said that "only you" (morninmist) would cheer about people being negatively affected by the weather, and i felt obliged to say that morninmist was not the only one.

You will have to agree with me that this election has brought out some real ugliness on both sides.

It must be part of the 'fun' of living in a battleground state. It should't be too much longer before it's over...

Lyn only wants to read news material or comments generated by media or posters living from within a 5-mile radius of her home!

That's why she is SO CLOSED-MINDED, and avoids any FACTs that disagree with her views. Typical Republicanoid!

It certainly is more preferable than those spamming up the forums with lefty talking points....

Who's paying you to post all this crap, Beth? How many states are in your quota today?

Why is Johnson dumb? Where is your proof? Or is this just another ad-hominem attack on the great senator because you have nothing else? Are all Republicans dumb? Or just the ones in Wisconsin? Do tell. Othewise, why should we bother arguing with you? As it is, you have pretty much worn out your welcome.

@Gear

Why does Mitt tell dumb lies? No, not all Republicans are dumb but sure are a lot of dumb ones saying stupid stuff.

BTW--Telling me I have worn out my welcome is pretty dumb also.

@MelissaRyan

President Bill Clinton on Romney's Jeep Ad: "Biggest Load of Bull in the World" http://goo.gl/aLsB3

@Gearhead There is a recent Wall Street Journal interview with Sen. Johnson where he comes across as a very concise, understanding and patient man. There are obvious problems in Washington, but he isn't one of them.

@Lawsonbulk

Gov Christie: Obama deserves great credit for storm response. http://bit.ly/RqZMi2

@srjones66

NYT: "Representatives Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor and other House Republicans have repeatedly tried to refuse FEMA’s budget requests"

Mitty lost his tongue!!

@jimacostacnn: Pool reporter attempted to ask Romney if he would eliminate FEMA at event in OH. He did not respond.

@SabrinaSiddiqui Pool asked Romney at least 5 times if he'd eliminate FEMA as president/what he'd do w/ FEMA." He ignored.

And stevie duzzy is a real dumbbo!

@TexasLeftist: New Jersey Gov. Chis Christie SCHOOLS @foxandfriends "I don't give a damn (cont) http://tl.gd/jr3v8c

Not as many as you, Colter95. How long have you been a GOP spammer -- and a rude one at that?