Jeanne, are you really as ignorant as your comment indicates? Are you supporting committing felonies to keep the people from exercising their constitutional rights? If so, I know an FBI agent who would love to talk to you.

@JAZZY If you read down you will find a good many of us that are condemming the actions. Just because we dont agree with the recall does not mean we condone illegal activities.

You forgot to mention ALEC...

Yes, the Koch brothers' Super PACs have funded these types of tricks in Ohio and elsewhere to confuse voters. They also funded professional signature-gatherers earlier this year who pretended to be procuring signatures for Republican legislator recalls, which I believe is still being investigated. Not to mention the phony Democratic candidates. Or the early filing of recall papers by a Republican to give the Koch brothers more time to write checks and have them processed and spent by AFP and their other facade organizations to spend on saving their pet governor's job.

When winning becomes more important than honoring our election procedures and our laws it's a sad day for our country.

@Bren -

Amazing - 83 comments and counting, and yet you and JazzyJim were the only ones to bring the Koch Bros into the mix! I just wanted to congratulate you for being such an open-minded independent that you remembered to do that here for us!

Without you and JazzyJim, we might have all forgotten about the Koch Bros and how they were probably the string-pullers behind this little episode!

I think ALEC is starting to feel left out. The Koch brothers seem to be the focus of the talking points today...

Mr. Hoffa, I will keep pointing out the connection and continue to state my utter rejection of the Koch brothers' radical agenda in Wisconsin and other states. I do not accept what I consider to be the warped views of the Koch brothers. I don't want anyone to forget that these men are trying to force this country to the far, far right. That's a bad path.

I agree. A total blowhard.

Holy crap Charlie, You are about the only one that actually caught it. *GASP* you mean you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet? You mean actually doing something and saying something are two different things? Oh the horror of it all! Again watching all the fake anger on this storie(S) is about the funniest thing I've seen in month. Watching Heather and others actually fall for it is even funnier.

This is not a left-wing conspiracy. Patch editors have an interview next week with an individual participating in these activities who is willing to let us use his name. There will not be shredding, but the petitions will also not be turned in.

While this story may or may not be legit, there are posters right here that have admitted to doing this.

Surprise, surprise--another biased "news" source...

What about this is so interesting? All it shows is that one of these nuts paid to attend a GOP fundraiser...

and the band ... played ... on

ACORN has been out of business for about 1 1/2 years, as they should be. Try to keep up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9lto2fcIQ <--- Umm Hmmm

That is the second time in the past hour I have hear Duane's name linked to this story.

I would not condone these actions from ANY side. I even wrote a commentary about the beer dumping. I don't like shady crap from anyone and I feel they should be decredited by the group they are claiming to represent. Always. This isn't a tit for tat. Why cant a topic stay on topic instead of bringing up Doyle or Obama or Acorn. That is not the topic. If you want to talk about that, create a blog and write about it. We can't go back in time for one thing. And havent you ever heard the kiddie phrase that 2 wrongs dont make a right?? Still holds true. When you cannot come up with a better comment you (general you) run around crying about bias. Weak.

There was a beer dumping? I stand firmly against any kind of abuse that results in the loss of perfectly good beer...

Heather:

I bring up Doyle to point out the hypocrisy of labeling Walker as being more 'anti-education' than any of his predecessors. How is that straying from the topic? It seems perfectly reasonable to judge Walker's actions by comparing them to actions that were taken by previous governors (and were not then considered to be grounds for recall)...

I remember His comment ... should be investigated, I still have his comment on record.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Duane Michalski openly admitted on the Caledonia Patch that he was going to do this. I don't know if it was Duane or not, but the plan has been in the works for a while.

My, my, my. I saw an article about this on Huffington Post and found myself right back here at home.

I do believe I shall download a petition, get the signatures of my family, and mail it in.

Yeah, *I* believe Vicki McKenna... <facepalm> Nice news source you got there...

@Phil Scarr -

How are the anonymous and unconfirmed ‘conspiracy theories’ in the McKenna article any different than those made in the Patch story? The reporter didn’t see the signature sheets, did she? The reporter is merely accepting the words and intent of a clearly disturbed individual and making them newsworthy because of the heated emotional response that this recall effort has managed to draw from people of the state.

Thanks for proving my point about the value of anonymous sources in providing ‘news’ worthy stories when the overall facts are independently unconfirmable.

Even if the facts asserted in the Patch story are true, we wouldn’t know it until fruition of failing to turn in the signatures actually occurs. Let’s be fair here, shall we?

thank you paul, great post! i can not stand how dirty poliltics have gotten in wisconsin!
republicans who will do anything and say anything to win (mostly from the tea partywho pretend to be the religeous ones) and now from the everyday people who just want them gone!

and the band ... played ... on

@Greta -

Read the story updates. It was a red herring. All signatures will be turned in to the GAB, according to the 'source' of this 'story.'

I agree

I agree! Talk about a bunch of people who are dumbasaboxofrocks. HA!

I am sure your family is very proud of your activities. You may disagree with the recall - don't sign a petition and maybe you'll get to vote for Walker twice. If you can't stand the trolls on facebook, make a private page and then spend sometime growing up.

and the band ... played ... on

I wonder if the FBI finally got involved? or the WI Justice Department??

This is what I got at the your link:

This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.

Return home

So Randy, I'm just curious here, are you telling us these people back in March should of been charged with a felony? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9lto2fcIQ .......or are we going to continue to sit here and play do as say not as do politics?

Chris - it absolutely should have been prosecuted as a felony. I don't care who does it - it's illegal.
"‎12.13(3)(A)
Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall petition or petition for a referendum or file or receive for filing a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.
A violation of 12.13(3)(A) is a Class I felony: a fine not to exceed $10,000 or imprisonment not to exceed 3 years and 6 months, or both."

DUANE MICHALSKI ... Goodbye Duane ... See ya in 3 years !

The next big recall scandal to break will be exposing the DPW’s secret plans to bus people in from out-of-state and provide them with residency in WI for 28 days for the sole purpose of having them vote against Walker in the recall election, if one is held.

The plans are already in the works – check it out:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/vicki-mckenna/organized-election-fraud-recall-walker-organizers-coming-in-from-ohio-to-take-ad/10150393452513150

Don’t think it’s possible, they did it in the last election and some of their less intelligent transplants got caught – check it out:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/133914803.html

Why do you think the DPW is pushing the recall effort at this time? Because they hope that can get the recall election scheduled before Voter ID goes into effect so they can once again use the transplant tactic!

At least they won’t be able to mess with the general election next November! Thank Walker and the Republicans for Voter ID!!!

James R Hoffa: Wait a second here. Voter ID didn't "stop" this, a complaint and investigation by the D.A. did. Voter ID has nothing to do with this at all. That dog just won't hunt, son.

Your logical leaps through the poppy fields of Wingnuttia must have you a little addled.

I think you missed JRH's point, Phil...

thank you paul, great post! i can not stand how dirty poliltics have gotten in wisconsin!
republicans who will do anything and say anything to win (mostly from the tea partywho pretend to be the religeous ones) and now from the everyday people who just want them gone!

CowDung: I don't think so... He was trying to connect voter ID to the recent events. They are not related any more than our invasion of Iraq based on our being attacked by non-state actors from Afghanistan. Same unsound reasoning.

The connection he was making to the recent events is 'fraud'...

@Phil Scarr -

Did you even read my post? If not, try reading it again. What I'm saying is that the only reason the DPW decided to push for the recall now, as opposed to waiting, is under the hope that they'll be able to get the recall election scheduled BEFORE Voter ID actually goes into effect.

And although the DPW knows that the special recall election won’t be scheduled until after the Spring 2012 Primaries, if it even happens, they will go to court and attempt to have the recall election 'grandfathered' in under id-less voting rules based on their recall petition filing having occurred this year. And they’ll probably be successful in getting a liberal Dane Co judge (Sumi) to go along with it.

But why do this? So they can bus public union sympathizers in from out-of-state and provide them with residency in WI for 28 days for the sole purpose of having those transplanted people vote against Walker in that special election. And as I already pointed out - they've been doing this for quite some time now. Given the situation in OH, they believe that they can transplant quite of few people from that state alone to help 'support' their cause.

It's been discussed at DPW meetings!

Voter ID would make it far more difficult for them to do this, as it would require more than a mere witness’s affirmation that you’ve lived in the state for the minimum 28-day requirement in order to qualify for voting residency!

Now do you get it?

James R Hoffa:
1. "The plans are already in the works – check it out:" is a link to something Vicki McKenna posted and IS NOT NEWS. It has no probative value whatsoever.

2. "they did it in the last election and some of their less intelligent transplants got caught": Irrelevant, it's a past event with 3 people and voter ID has nothing to do with HOW THEY WERE CAUGHT. Another example of Voter ID "fixing" a problem we don't have.

3. "What I'm saying is that the only reason the DPW decided to push for the recall now, as opposed to waiting," is your opinion backed by no facts or statements from the DPW. I think they started because some GOPer filed earlier than they did to trigger Walker's fundraising or did you forget that?

4. "It's been discussed at DPW meetings!" I await the YouTube link.

5. Do you think that Voter ID will prove anything if the rule is 28 days? What's to prevent 100,000,000 people moving into Wisconsin in the next week to establish residency (other than finding a place for all of them to sleep)? Voter ID? Hardly! NOR SHOULD IT! If the rule is 28 days, IT'S 28 DAYS REGARDLESS OF WHY YOU CAME HERE! If you came here to vote in the Recall, then SO BE IT. IT'S NOT ILLEGAL!

6. "Now do you get it?" DO YOU?

"IT'S 28 DAYS REGARDLESS OF WHY YOU CAME HERE! If you came here to vote in the Recall, then SO BE IT. IT'S NOT ILLEGAL!"

It actually is illegal.

"Any person registering to vote and voting on Election Day must have lived at their current address for at least 28 days before the election with no present intent to move and must provide an acceptable proof of residence document from the list below."

http://city.milwaukee.gov/vote

The 28 day thing is for those who have no plans to leave the state--not for people that squat here for 28 days, vote and then move back out of state...

Don't the three people who have been caught serve as an indication that voter fraud can easily be accomplished without the voter ID law? I wonder how many more have done the same but haven't been caught...

@Phil -

1. Just like all of the crap coming from the liberal blogs about Koch Bros government take over conspiracy theories, right? And yet, I've never once seen you dismiss any of those comments as having "no probative value whatsoever."

2. Very real - especially seeing as how all three were confirmed SEIU operatives. And yes, Voter Id probably would have prevented their fraudulent voting, had it been in effect.

3. You're right - it's just as much conjecture as how those 1,000 plus phony signature gatherers won't actually turn in the collected signatures. We won't really know for sure until the time for either event has come and passed - will we? However, it's just as plausible a theory as this or the Koch conspiracy theories, isn't it? YES!

4. Funny, I didn't see a YouTube of this story showing anyone with actual collected signatures who was planning to destroy them instead of turning them in - and yet, you still bought the initial story despite how it changed over the course of less than a day. Do you employ double standards in every aspect of your life? I'm just wondering.

5. Yeah, voter ID will make it much more difficult to perpetrate this kind of fraud. Yes, the die-hards will still try and get away with it, but it will be much more difficult - even for them. And CowDung already correctly debunked your 'its legal' argument so I won't re-address that. Thanks CowDung!

6. Apparently, you still didn't get it, but perhaps now you will. I doubt it though!

@Phil -

And let's not forget about the DPW's planned 'Cemetery Petition Drive.' The link was: http://grassroots.wisdems.org/page/event/detail/recallpetitionsigning/wrqg

However, as I noted earlier, the event has since been taken down and scrubbed from the website. Screen captures of the page still exist from when it was active, however. It was listed under the ‘Events’ section of the website and was described by the following text:

“We will be taking names from headstones and making recall petitions with the names we find. We will start in Holy Angels Cemetery on Decorah Rd. and go from there.”

Reports indicate that the DPW is claiming that their website was hacked and a pro-walker supporter posted the event in order to discredit the DPW and the recall effort in general. Even if the DPW’s assertions are true on this one, what’s most interesting is that over 70 legitimate and verified participants actually registered to partake in the event – indicative of the extremes to which the anti-Walker crowd is willing to go.

The whole point I’m trying to make is that both sides will come-up with and actually perpetrate dirty tricks during this process, just as we saw with the senatorial recalls. Neither side is more ethically conscious than the other and anyone claiming such, on either side, is obviously in denial or has drunken a little too much of their side’s kool-aid!

James R Hoffa:
1. "DPW’s “Cemetery Petition Drive” - So wait, I'm supposed to take the ABSENCE of evidence as EVIDENCE? Really?? I think not...

2. 28 Day rule - Not sure how you would enforce that at all. Voter ID won't do it because you can GET an ID in 28 days so your logic doesn't hold up. How do you police "intent?"

3. Straw men ("all of the crap coming from the liberal blogs") are ignored.

4. You obviously didn't read my post about the guys who are going to destroy / hold the recall signatures. Go back and read it.

5. Voter ID will not prevent short-term voting behavior. Please explain how it would.

@Phil Scarr -

1. As I stated, screen captures from the website of the posted event are readily available – search for them online if you’re really interested in substantiating this claim.

2. You must have forgotten about this part from the Voter ID law – “and must provide an acceptable proof of residence document from the list below.” People who merely shack up in another’s house for 28 days just to meet residency in order to vote and then return to their original place of origin would have a hard time coming up with such proof of residence. And would have to put in much more effort in order to be able to produce such documenation. Did I really have to explain that one to you?

3. Fine by me.

4. You concluded - “They are above the law in their own minds. It is important that we demonstrate to them through the legal system that they are not above the law. This is disappointing but not surprising.” So, it’s obvious that you accepted the carrying out of their plan without any real proof of action haven been taken. So how exactly does that change my original assertion about your position on this one?

5. As explained above – it will prevent the kind of bussed in transplant voter fraud that the DPW wants to be able to continue using to swing elections. I really can’t explain it any more than I already have.

Get over it already. Why is it so hard for you to deal with Hoffa's username?

@john -

I told you I'm not playing this game with you anymore! But because I like you, I'll change the picture just to make you happy!

Don't say I never did anything for you!

There, are you happy now john? :-)

LOL at least it isn't his Tommy Divito character...

@HRG -

Thanks :-)

I thought some people might have appreciated my efforts here ;-)

@john -

This may come as a surprise to you, but Hoffa is sort of a childhood hero of mine. And apparently, I know far more about him than you do, despite the fact that I'm not a Teamster. Now that's ironic!

Its what you call fraud ... John

Where did ya bury him JRH ?

Are you looking in the mirror ?

@Denise -

Yeah, I gottcha and your journalistic integrity is sound with me. :-) I only called the 'liberal media bias' card before I knew and realized that the source had sought you out.

Again, I publicly acknowledge my erroneous assumption concerning this and apologize for doing that.

At the time of the story, the source’s intent appeared to be concrete. I don’t know what changed the source’s mind, and honestly I don’t really care. The reality is that we still won’t know what the source and the ‘others’ will actually do until the time to act has come and passed. Until then though, no crime and no foul has been committed.

Perhaps a better way to go about the signature collection processes would be to require, by state statute, that all signature gatherers take an ‘oath of intent and duty’ before becoming qualified to collect signatures, as then the source would have been guilty of a crime for collecting those signatures at such a time when his/her intent and purpose was clearly for an ulterior agenda. Kinda like how absentee ballots must be verified and witnessed before being mailed in order to be valid and counted.

Take care and keep on seeking out the good stories!

Hoffa -- we're all good. That's one of the reasons why I love doing community journalism and also writing for the web. People challenge you and if you are humble enough to realize where they are coming from, you become a better journalist. And if you get it wrong... people will call you on it.

@Denise –

Some constructive criticisms for the future, if you’re at all interested:

Whenever a source seeks you out, always be super suspicious of the source’s true motive/intent and always try to independently verify the facts provided by the source. I know that in this case, the screen captures from the group’s Facebook page, as published by the Brad Blog guy, served to substantiate the actual premise of the story. However, the Brad Blog guy himself is a known liberal activist and therefor has questionable motives of his own. Even if we assume the Brad Blog guy’s screen captures to be legit, it still only provides proof of a planned intent, but nothing more. In this case, I personally would have insisted on seeing the actual petitions showing the 150 signatures that had already been collected by the source, as that’s really the only factual proof that any action on that ‘planned intent’ had actually been carried out. As you apparently knew the source personally, you considered his word on this as being good enough. And although I trust your character and integrity as a person enough to successfully judge and assess other’s characters and integrity, such as your source, others reading may not see it that way. So, from a journalistic perspective, a visual confirmation of the collected signatures probably would have been best here.

I’m not slamming you in any way – just tying to help you become a better journalist in the future. My background in factual investigation is pretty similar to the standards held by the journalistic field, so I just thought I’d offer my advice :-)

@Phil -

Is that where liberals go to plan the big out-of-state bus in of transplant voters?
;-)

@Denise -

Yeah, I got that part. However, the sub-headline to the story reads "One Caledonia resident says those efforts are real." In order to substantiate whether or not his claims were in fact 'real,' you either had to see the actual petitions or take him at his word. And while you may know him well enough to trust him at his word, your readers may not. That’s why a visual confirmation of the already collected petitions would have made this story all that much more solid, as you already know.

Remember, as the great James R Hoffa (the real one – not me) once said:

“Any man can have an accusation throw at him. Am I immune? Are you?”

Anyone can make stuff up for a multitude of reasons. If assertions alone are good enough to report, then you’d never ever have to go looking for a story as you’d have a never ending supply with all of the crazy conspiracy theories that show up in the Patch comment threads alone. Remember Woodward and Berstein – even though they had a confidential source, they still had to independently confirm the facts that were being relayed by the source in order for the story to be considered credible.

That’s the point I was getting at.

Like I said, it’s not a rip - just friendly advice! :-)

Keep on seeking out and reporting the good stories!

BTW - On a personal note, if you've never seen DeVito's Hoffa (1992), check it out - it's a great film (although historically inaccurate in many places).

And then, after watching Hoffa, check out the "Blood Feud" mini-series (1983) (which is more historically accurate as to events and timeline, but not personality).

It's a good compare and contrast study that really highlights the power of perspective.

@john -

That's not surprising and even expected. I'm going to let you in on a little secret - Wisconsin is still a big agricultural state. Fall harvest is pretty much over with. That means that all those seasonal worker's jobs have ended for the year. It doesn't mean that Walker's reforms aren't working.

Numbers are great, but if you really want to see the reality of the situation, you have to remember to take those numbers into context.

Try again!

BTW - Did you see my new picture? I did that just for you :-)

Sorry Jimmy, those are seasonally adjusted numbers.

"The manufacturing sector lost 3,400 jobs, the health care sector lost 1,700 jobs and the retail trade sector lost 1,900 jobs. The construction sector lost 2,200 jobs."

Nice guess on your part but very very very wrong.

@Phil -

The "construction sector" wouldn't be considered seasonal in Wisconsin? That's funny, as I seem to recall having used the term 'road construction season' quite frequently in Wisconsin. And how many of the "retail trade sector" jobs were seasonal, such as outdoor Wisconsin Dells’ waterparks, mini-golf courses, etc.? And of the jobs listed, how many were lost via retirement and attrition and just haven't been re-filled yet?

There's actually so much more to consider here Phil, isn't there? Not to mention that the numbers you provide don't add up to john's 10,000! And, are these numbers net or gross?

Come on Phil - proper context. It's essential!

@john -

Thanks for the laugh - that was great! What can I say, if the shoe fits... :-)

How did you know that I'm also a big fan of William Shatner? I actually had the pleasure of meeting him once!

BTW -

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving as well! And don’t forget to say hi to James P for me ;-)

@john –

One last thing – nice Cleavon Little impersonation from Fletch Lives (1989). You really have that one down :-)

JRH:

I thought the impersonation was spot-on for "Cletus, The Slack-Jawed Yokel."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgDw7_L82kU

Or better yet, for "Junior Samples."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG1Aafqsb-E&feature=related

@patchreader 123 -

Gotta love Hee Haw!

But who can forget Alabama Man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA7atPCN5_E

Of course, Archie Bunker has the definitive last word on Obama -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtRbIz-GHo8

Talked to a guy thats a carpenter. He's out of work and so are another 500 plus of his fellow carpenters. Denise I hope that one day JRH can help you to become a good story teller. Great numbers Phil, JRH is totally out of touch. I don't feel Walker has done a thing in regards to jobs. Really liked your comments Phil, finally someone on here that has facts not like JRH's B.S.

Charlie Sykes reminds me of dog chit ... I don't know why ?

To be fair, the report in the Journal-Sentinal did state that Wisconsin lost 9,300 "non-agricultural", private sector jobs last month, as well as 400 public sector jobs.

Joey, my goodness you really have a hate problem. President Bush has been out of office for three years and Karl Rove is just a Teddy Bear who is sharp as a tack and drive left wing hate mongers nuts. Read his book. It is very revealing.
Hey, how many people are registered to vote out of State Senator Lena Taylors home? More than 20, one a convicted felon. Does that make all dems scumbags with no ethics and really huge butts, no it does not.
How about the guy on video giving people smokes for signatures on the recall TP?No here also.
Now how is this guy tied so tight to the GOP. Maybe he's an independent or a commie (thats a right leaning democrat) or a libertarian?
Now chill out and my God bless you and yours with a good Thanksgiving.
I understand that most of the Packers are rich members of the GOP, go Pack, Beat the Lions